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06 January 2006 @ 01:20 pm
potential kitchen layout 1  

kitchen layout 1
Originally uploaded by mollydot.
Here's one potential way of laying out the kitchen. My edits are in green, except for moving the sink, which I didn't colour.

The bits that go out further are the windows - we have a lot of windows, including ones at the corners. We did that to be bright & airy (the top of the picture is south), though I'm running out of space to fit high things in!

The fridge-sink-hob triangle fits into distance recommendations I've seen, though possibly it would be handier to have more counter space between the fridge and sink.

The island is 4' (1200mm) square and 4' (1200mm) away from counters on both sides. I've read that 4' (1200mm) is the ideal distance & that you'd want a foot (300 mm) either side of the hob. It could possibly be lengthened towards the bottom, depending on how much space we want around the table (ideally space to walk past a seated person)

I thought the only places for the oven was beside the fridge, or opposite the sink, but a colleague suggested against the bits of wall at the top. I chose the one to the right as I felt the one to the left would break up the counter too much. I suppose a microwave would go somewhere between the sink and the oven. I don't like built in spaces for microwaves, I prefer to put them on the counter.

[bigger picture]

What do you think?

I hope to also draw out one with the sink in the original position (at the middle south window), though I don't know if I'll have time to upload a picture.

If time allows I may play with a diagonal island too.

ETA metric for pedantic people, ie davidg666
ETA: I'd probably put a bin under the sink.

SirRoysirroy on January 6th, 2006 01:37 pm (UTC)
Looks perfect.
a very caring potato: hurray!mollydot on January 6th, 2006 01:53 pm (UTC)
Thanks :-)
davidg666 on January 6th, 2006 01:45 pm (UTC)
Sorry to be pedantic, but: what's four-prime? What's a foot? We use SI units in this part of the world, and I hope your architect does too :^) Sorry...

Moving on... :
  • is there enough space for a nice big fridge (even if you start with a narrow one, you may wish to upgrade later)? (I like the location of the fridge 'behind' the door though)
  • You can butt the end of the table against the island to either make more space or allow a bigger table.
  • I love the windows, but I'd worry that the high oven would restrict the light from its adjacent windows, or make them harder to access. How about next to the fridge? (remarks about oven and fridge not liking one another notwithstanding (love that word!)) — a small gap or thick bit of wood or something could separate them if you were concerned. (my fridge is next to my oven and I ain't complaining)
a very caring potatomollydot on January 6th, 2006 02:09 pm (UTC)
Any four of aces, deuces, treys, fours, and fives?
The bit at the bottom of your leg?

I think "we" use both :-) The advice I'm reading is probably American. I've added milimetres just for you. The architect does use SI; everything on the diagram is mm.

Space for bigger fridge: Yeeessss.... I think so. Unless the counters move further along the wall. I wonder how big fridges get? I've been assuming things in generally to be approxmiately 600mm.

Table: Yeah, there's a few places the table can go. I don't think there's a perfect space, as either it'd be blocking a pathway or some of the table space would be unused (eg putting it against the wall gets it out of the way, but lose one side of it). But it's a table. It can be moved/replaced. The one we have is 47 inches (sorry!) by 36, unextended.

Oven: Yeah, I'm not sure. Putting it beside the fridge wouldn't restrict light, but there's the counter things as well as the heat thing. My colleague also reckons it shouldn't be too close to the eating area, for eating enjoyment. That probably depends on the individual, I'll have to think about it more. Perhaps we could put it beside the fridge and extend the island so there's a counter a couple of steps away. The other issue I have with where it is in the diagram is the distance from the work triangle.
davidg666 on January 6th, 2006 02:37 pm (UTC)
[just went looking for that Monty Python quote but couldn't find it, so: Q: "Hello, what's afoot?" A: "that funny thing at the end of your leg" Oh dear, should really be doing some work...]

"We" use SI units only; that's all I (and presumably you also) was ever taught in school. (I would agree that informally, many Irish people use (perversely) that strange mediaeval British system)

I believe 600mm is the 'standard' width for most appliances, but I guess a 'big' fridge would exceed this. It looked like there was more space on your floorplan for the fridge to extend to the left, although maybe you had other plans for that space.

Oven: if you decide to go for the traditional low-level kind, then many of the potential downsides evaporate; you can then stick it anywhere, including under your island. (oh, to have an island!)

Another thought: I notice your hob is on the island; will you have one of those suspended extractor fan thingies (like a square inverted funnel) to suck out the smoke when your visitors from Dublin come to burn water? (if you do have such an extractor, it'll need a 100mm bendy pipe run from it to a vent on the outside wall (although you can have them just filter the air they suck and eject it back into the room if you want)) (and are these brackets balanced? oh, the stress!)
davidg666 on January 6th, 2006 02:38 pm (UTC)
Gack; sorry; LJ ate my '...' element tags wrapping the bit that went ""We" use SI units only [...] British system)"
davidg666 on January 6th, 2006 02:39 pm (UTC)
Gack again, and more of the same. What I meant was "<pedant>…</pedant>"
a very caring potatomollydot on January 6th, 2006 02:59 pm (UTC)
I see your <pedant> and raise you a <pernickety>...
a very caring potatomollydot on January 6th, 2006 02:58 pm (UTC)
It's what we were taught in school, but I knew about imperial first. In fact, a think a metre might have been explained in school as about the same length as a yard. I find a foot a good human length, but I use metre rather than yard. I'm very bad with weights and measures in general and I think part of the problem might be from growing up with two systems. A 50m pool, a 14 stone person, a pint of milk, a kilo of potatoes...

<pedant>So you've only used SI? I hope you only started driving after the speed limits changed to metric</pedant>


I took a quick google, and saw fridges 35.5" wide - the side by side ones. I also saw ones 727mm wide on the same site - must be for different markets.

No particular plans for that space. Maybe a table and sockets so phones, etc, can be recharged in a handy spot for going out. Unless the oven goes there.

Someone I was talking to last night said he had a recirculating extrator and it was crap. So we'll probably go for a vented one. We're having a concrete floor on the 1st floor (that's second floor for any Americans reading this), so we'll have a suspended ceiling the ground floor, so pipes won't be a problem.

Oh! Those brackets. I thought you meant brackets holding the pipe! I suggest you copy & paste your comment into a programmer's editor and check them :-)

[if only I'd set myself up with an art by the inch icon that had a ruler or other measuring instrument in it - I'd use it for this comment]
davidg666 on September 30th, 2006 01:51 pm (UTC)
Before I start rambling, your remark about bins reminded me of something. I remember being in an apartment building in Singapore and there was a little baby door in the kitchen about 100mm high by 300mm wide … it was the entrance to a chute for rubbish; you just chuck whatever it is in there and it drops 20-odd floors to somewhere you don't have to worry about in the basement. I guess you can't apply any variant of the 3-second-rule when putting stuff you intended to eat in the bin by mistake… Oh, but the reason I mentioned that is that your remark about bin being under the sink made me wonder if it was possible to have a chute instead of a bin that leads outside to your wheelie bin or similar.

You have a good point about our mixing of weights and measures in this country. I blame our parents' generation! I used to think that having distances in kilometres and speed limits in miles per hour on signs here was alright until I went to other countries and then realised that it was just plain daft. It was very handy to read the signs, see that it was ~300km to your destination, you were on a good road with about 100..110km/h speed limit and so you'd be there in about three hours. It actually made the signs useful. But yea, it's now annoying having a car whose speedometer is marked with miles in big numbers and kilometres in small ones. At least I could configure the odometer to use kilometres and the fuel efficency -ometer to report litres per 100km!

Eh, am too lazy to copy&paste my comments into an editor (especially since that'd be vi running in an xterm...) so all checking will be by vgrep...

[another pedantic aside: who must one campaign to make it 'Art by the metre'? :p ]

Back on track: vented exractor good. Suspended ceiling under concrete? Interesting... What's your ceiling height going to be? (in microfurlongs please...)
The Milkman of Human Kindnessradegund on January 6th, 2006 03:50 pm (UTC)
That looks great! *suppresses twinges of jealousy*

One remark unconnected to the layout: it may be worth pointing out that I nurture an UNREASONABLE PASSION for our double sink - something I didn't even notice when we bought our house. It's just so ridiculously handy, particularly if you have two people working in the kitchen at once (fill a kettle conveniently while scrubbing potatoes, for instance). If/when I ever design a kitchen, a double sink will be a non-negotiable feature.

Also on the subject of sinks, make sure that the neck of your tap is long enough to wash a large pot under without sending water spraying up behind the sink. Ours (the standard size) isn't, and it's a pain in the arse. What I'd really like is one of those pull-out, shower-head-style taps. They sound exceptionally cool to this inveterate functionality fan.

May I live out my kitchen remodelling dreams vicariously through you, please? Ta.
a very caring potatomollydot on January 6th, 2006 04:06 pm (UTC)
Oh yes! Double sink. I forgot to draw that in. There again, if I had drawn it myself it probably would have been an unrecognisable mess.
Do you recommend two standard size ones or a standard and a small?

We've decided to have a large sink in the utility, so oversized things like woks or small children can be washed there.

Hmm.. yes... I like the sound of the pull out taps... <makes note>

Sure thing. Should I bring round plans next time we call over?
The Milkman of Human Kindnessradegund on January 6th, 2006 03:54 pm (UTC)
Oh! Oh! Another thing! You'll need several bins (unless you won't be separating rubbish, which I hope and trust is not the case). Will they all fit under the sink?
a very caring potato: thinkingmollydot on January 6th, 2006 04:12 pm (UTC)
Ah. Hadn't thought of that. I haven't had a pull out, under-sink bin since I lived at home before the rubbish separating happened. There was a small container by the sink for compost, that was it. My parents now have a box by the back door for recycling. The bin's no longer under the sink.

Ok, how about rubbish most likely to be near the sink goes under it, whether that be compost, general rubbish or whatever. Paper's likely to be the bulkiest, so utility room for that. Possibly a smaller container in the kitchen? Cans need rinsing, so at the sink would make sense, but we'd probably want to drain them first, so they could be carried en masse from the draining board to the stomping ground to a bin in the utility room. What else is there? I've seen compost like things that take stuff that you can't compost, like cooked food.
The Milkman of Human Kindnessradegund on January 6th, 2006 08:10 pm (UTC)
What else is there?

I guess it depends on what your local authority takes. We take plastic bags and bottles, glass, batteries and textiles to our local Bring Centre, which also takes the things that go in our green bin (paper, cans, tetrapak).

You can compost cooked food in a wormery. Not for the squeamish, though! :-)
a very caring potatomollydot on January 6th, 2006 09:53 pm (UTC)
I have no idea what'd be picked up. I don't even know if there'd be a rubbish collection. I know there's a bottle bank not too far away.
a very caring potatomollydot on January 9th, 2006 01:04 pm (UTC)
I may as well stick my own notes here as I think of them.

Have drawn dishwasher under draining board - might be better with draining board on other side, so dirty stuff waiting for dishwasher doesn't get mixed up with clean stuff on draining board. Also, if have sink of sudsy water, can continue easily with a couple of things destined for dishwasher after hand wash only stuff is done.